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Thucydides Mythhistoricus

Thucydides Mythhistoricus. Melian Dialogue , Herms , and Sicilian Expedition. Thucydides and “Objective” History.

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Thucydides Mythhistoricus

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  1. Thucydides Mythhistoricus Melian Dialogue, Herms, and Sicilian Expedition

  2. Thucydides and “Objective” History The absence of romance in my history will, I fear, detract somewhat from its interest; but if it be judged useful by those inquirers who desire an exact knowledge of the past as an aid to the understanding of the future, which in the course of human things must resemble if it does not reflect it, I shall be content. In fine, I have written my work, not as an essay which is to win the applause of the moment, but as a possession for all time. (1.22.4)

  3. Plague in Athens, 430 BCE Thucydides, 2.48 It first began, it is said, in the parts of Ethiopia above Egypt, and from there it descended into Egypt and Libya and into most of the King’s country. Suddenly falling upon Athens, it first attacked the population in the Piraeus, which was the occasion of their saying that the Peloponnesians had poisoned the reservoirs, there being as yet no wells there, and afterwards appeared in the upper city, when the deaths became much more frequent. All speculation as to its origin and its causes, if causes can be found adequate to produce so great a disturbance, I leave to other writers, whether lay or professional; for myself, I shall simply set down its nature, and explain the symptoms by which perhaps it may be recognized by the student, if it should ever break out again. This I can the better do, as I had the disease myself, and watched its operation in the case of others.

  4. Plague in Athens, 430 BCE Thucydides, 2.53 Nor was this the only form of lawless extravagance which owed its origin to the plague. Men now did just as they pleased, cooly venturing on what they had formerly done only in secret, seeing the rapid changes produced by prosperous people suddenly dying and the poor taking their property. So they resolved to spend quickly and enjoy themselves, regarding their lives and wealth as alike things of a day. Perseverance in what men call honor was popular with none, it was so uncertain whether they would be spared to attain the object; but it was settled that present enjoyment, and all that contributed to it, was both honorable and useful. Fear of gods or law of man there was none to restrain them. As for the first, they judged it to be just the same whether they worshipped them or not, as they saw all alike perishing; and for the last, no one expected to live to be brought to trial for his offenses, but each felt that a far severer sentence had already been passed upon them all and hung ever over their heads, and before this fell it was only reasonable to enjoy life a little.

  5. Stasis in the Greek World: Corcyra (427 BCE) Thucydides, 3.82 So bloody was the march of revolution, and the impression which it made was the greater as it was one of the first to occur. Later on, one may say, the whole Greek world was convulsed; struggles being everywhere made by the popular leaders to bring in the Athenians, and by the oligarchs to introduce the Spartans. In peace there would have been neither the pretext nor the wish to make such an invitation; but in war, with an alliance always at the command of either faction for the hurt of their adversaries and their own corresponding advantage, opportunities for bringing in the foreigner were never wanting to the revolutionary parties. The sufferings have occurred and always will occur as long as the nature of mankind remains the same; though in a severer or milder form, and varying in their symptoms, according to the variety of the particular cases. In peace and prosperity states and individuals have better sentiments, because they do not find themselves suddenly confronted with imperious necessities; but war takes away the easy supply of daily wants and so proves a rough master that brings most men’s characters to a level with their fortunes.

  6. Stasis in the Greek World: Corcyra (427 BCE) Thucydides, 3.82-83 Words had to change their ordinary meaning and to take that which was now given them. Reckless audacity came to be considered the courage of a loyal supporter; prudent hesitation, specious cowardice; moderation was held to be a cloak for unmanliness; ability to see all sides of a question incapacity to act on any….such associations sought not the blessings derivable from established institutions but were formed by ambition to overthrow them; and the confidence of their members in each other rested less on any religious sanction than upon complicity in crime….Thus religion was in honor with neither party; but the use of fair phrases to arrive at guilty ends was in high reputation. Meanwhile the moderate part of the citizens perished between the two, either for not joining in the quarrel, or because envy would not suffer them to escape. Thus every form of iniquity took root in Greece by reason of the troubles. The ancient simplicity into which honor so largely entered was laughed down and disappeared; and society became divided into camps in which no man trusted his fellow.

  7. Sack of Melos (Thucydides, 5.116) About the same time the Melians again took another part of the Athenian lines which were but feebly garrisoned. Reinforcements afterwards arriving from Athens in consequence, under the command of Philocrates son of Demeas, the siege was now pressed vigorously, and some treachery taking place inside, the Melians surrendered at discretion to the Athenians, who put to death all the grown men whom they took, and sold the women and children for slaves, and subsequently sent out five hundred colonists and settled the place themselves.

  8. Russell Meiggs on Melian Dialogue “[T]here is strangely little emphasis on the final penalty, the killing of the men and the enslavement of the women and children. Thucydides’ interest seems to be concentrated on the analysis of power and the logical implications of the natural law that the strong rule the weak.” The Athenian Empire (1972), pg. 388

  9. Thucydides and International Relations Melian Dialogue (Thucydides, 5.84-116)

  10. Thucydides and the “Realists” • From International Anarchy to Bipolarity to Unipolarity • Competitive Struggle for Security and Supremacy • “Zero-Sum” Competition (agonistic) • Power Ultimately the Final Arbiter • “The problem is this: how to conceive of an order without an orderer and of organizational effects where formal organization is lacking.” (Kenneth Waltz, Theory of International Politics (89))

  11. Thucydides and IR Theorists“Realist School” • Absence of Effective International Peace-Keeping Agencies • Conflict Resolutions Usually Ineffective • Power the Focal Point of Analysis • Objective, Omniscient, “Scientific” Authorial Stance

  12. Euripides’ Trojan Women (produced 415 BCE): Death of the Trojan men, enslavement of the Trojan women; destruction of Troy Do not fight it. Take your grief as you were born to take it, give up the struggle where your strength is feebleness with no force anywhere to help. ~lines 727-729

  13. Athenians to Melians (Thucydides, 5.105) Our opinion of the gods and our knowledge of men lead us to conclude that it is a general and necessary law of nature to rule whatever one can. This is not a law that we made ourselves, nor were we the first to act upon it when it was made. We found it already in existence, and we shall leave it to exist forever among those who come after us. We are merely acting in accordance with it, and we know that you or anybody else with the same power as ours would be acting precisely the same way.

  14. Magnitude of Sicilian Expedition(Thucydides, 6.31) Indeed the expedition became not less famous for its wonderful boldness and for the splendor of its appearance, than for its overwhelming strength as compared with the peoples against whom it was directed, and for the fact that this was the longest passage from home attempted up until that time, and the most ambitious in its objectives considering the resources of those who undertook it.

  15. While these preparations were going on [preparations for the Sicilian Expedition] it was found that in one night nearly all the stone Herms in the city of Athens had had their extremities cut off. These are a national institution, the well-known square-cut figures, of which there are great numbers both in the porches of private houses and in the temples. No one knew who had done this, but large rewards were offered by the state in order to find out who the criminals were, and there was also a decree passed guaranteeing immunity to anyone, citizen, alien, or slave, who knew of any other sacrilegious act that had taken place and would come forward with information about it. The whole affair, indeed, was taken very seriously, as it was regarded as an omen for the expedition, and at the same time as evidence of a revolutionary conspiracy to overthrow the democracy. Evil Omen: Mutilation of Herms(Thucydides, 6.27)

  16. Correctives to the “Realist” Interpretation • Thucydides and “Tragic Vision” (Cornford) • Thucydides and Reader Response (Connor) • Thucydidean Objectivity as Authorial Stance

  17. Thucydides and Template of Greek Tragedy • Excessive Pride and Abuse of Power • Hybris • Plans for Extending Empire in Time of War (Sicilian Expedition) • Fatal Flaw or Mistake • Hamartia • Affair of the Herms • Massacre at Melos • Inability to See Nature of One’s Own Behavior • Atē • Motivations for Sicilian Expedition; Arguments in Melian Dialogue • Retribution • Nemesis • Destruction of Military Forces in Sicily

  18. F.M. Cornford, Thucydides Mythhistoricus (1907) “Thucydides was one of those prophets and kings of thought who have desired to see the day of all-conquering Knowledge, and have not seen it. The deepest instinct of the human mind is to shape the chaotic world and the illimitable stream of events into some intelligible form which it can hold before itself and take in at one survey….The man whose reason has thrown over myth and abjured religion, and who yet is born too soon to find any resting-place for his thought provided by science and philosophy, may set himself to live on isolated facts without a theory; but the time will come when his resistance will break down. All the artistic and imaginative elements in his nature will pull against his reason, and, if once he begins to produce, their triumph is assured. In spite of all his good resolutions, the work will grow under his hands into some satisfying shape, informed by reflection and governed by art….as the long agony wore on, as crime led to crime and madness to ruin, it was only from a distance that the artist who was no longer an actor could discern the large outlines shaping all that misery and suffering into a thing of beauty and awe which we call Tragedy.” (pp. 249-50)

  19. Melian Dialogue (5.84-116) and Tragedy • Placed immediately before account of Sicilian Expedition • Set in dialogue form in the manuscripts; cf. stichomythia of Greek tragedy • “[T]he standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and…in fact that the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they have to accept.” (Athenians to Melians, Thucydides, 5.89)

  20. Melian Dialogue, Thucydidean Tragedy Thucydides “Melian Dialogue” Greek Text

  21. W.R. Connor, Thucydides (Princeton 1984) • Focus on reader response as most profitable approach to Thucydides’ text • Objectivity as an authorial stance in Thucydides • Objective, omniscient stance as a vehicle for reader to experience the war on a deep emotional level • Thucydides’ text demands reader participation and continual reassessment • Throughout apparent truths are transformed or subverted

  22. Connor on “Melian Dialogue” “Whatever our reactions to what happens to the Melians, it is hard to escape a feeling of horror at what is happening to the Athenians. They remain in many respects as we have always seen them--clever, determined, vigorous, the fulfillment of the Corinthians’ description of them as a people unaccustomed to choosing tranquility for themselves or allowing it to others (1.70). But now all is changed, for despite their clear mindedness, they fail fully to perceive the dangers that surround them. They see the weakness of the Melians’ position with total clarity but in important respects fail to realize who they are and the implications of their words. The logic of their position compels them to suppress the freedom of island states. Yet the reader knows that another island, Sicily, will soon overcome an Athenian attack.” (Thucydides, pp. 154-55)

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