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PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS

PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS. REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT . OUTLINE. Plato’s aesthetics in Rep . 10 as extension of critiques in Rep . 2 & 3 Homer, Hesiod criticised on religious, educational grounds Mimesis first mooted: returns in Rep . 10

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PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS

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  1. PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS REPUBLIC 10IN CONTEXT

  2. OUTLINE • Plato’s aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of critiques in Rep. 2 & 3 • Homer, Hesiod criticised on religious, educational grounds • Mimesis first mooted: returns in Rep. 10 • Rep. 10 critique of mimetic painting & poetry: epic and tragedy • Ontological & epistemological grounds • Psychological and ethical reasons also • Plato’s use of/reaction to earlier thinkers • Presocratics, Sophists, et al.

  3. PLATONIC AESTHETICS I • Inseparable from • Education • Ontology: theories of ‘being’ • Epistemology: theories of knowledge • Psychology • Ethics & Justice • Politics • Issues addressed elsewhere in Republic • Plato addresses legacy of poets: Homer, Hesiod, et al. • His intellectual precursors • Poets seen as teachers of religion, ethics, law

  4. PLATONIC AESTHETICS II • Plato expresses different views on art & poetry elsewhere • Phaedrus: Plato admires mania of poet • Apology: invokes Achilles as his model! • Plato is himself a supreme literary artist (and knows it!) • Ion: poetry beautiful and true • But poets/rhapsodes irrational • Operate under inspiration = ENTHOUSIASMOS • Republic 10: poet = imitator only • No inspiration • Plato on poetry: Curb Your Enthousiasmos

  5. PLATONIC AESTHETICS III • Anticipated and contradicted by other Greek thinkers • Xenophanes c. 570-480 BC • Heraclitus, active, c. 500 BC • Protagoras, c. 490-20 BC • Antilogica said to contain everything in Plato’s Republic! • But Protagoras sees poetry at the heart of education • Gorgias, c. 480-375 BC • Democritus, c. 465-380 BC • Dissoi Logoi - sophistic treatise c. 400 BC • Ethics • Epistemology • Aesthetics

  6. Why does Plato banish epic & tragic poetry in Republic 10? • Cultural issues to be explored • Centrality of poetry in Archaic & Classical Greece • Vehicle for social values, mores, • History, education, cultural identity • But also a lot more… • Greece in 400s till largely an oral & visual culture • I.e. not ‘bookish’ • Literacy a public phenomenon = reading aloud • Paintings, statues, buildings also shape & reflect public sentiment & ideology

  7. Homeric poetry in schools • Recitation of Iliad & Odyssey • Seen as educative • Religion, lore, ethics • Herodotus, Plato, Xenophon • Cf. Aristophanes Frogs • But criticised early • Xenophanes & Heraclitus • Iliad very complex in ethics

  8. REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Plato on Homer and Hesiod Homer: Iliad and Odyssey Hesiod: Theogony & Works and Days

  9. Art, Epic & Tragedy in Classical Athens Theatre of Dionysos Acropolis, Athens Cf. Pericles: ‘Look on her power and become a lover of the city.’ (Thucydides)

  10. Athens: ‘The School of Hellas’ • By 450 BC Athens is imperial power • ‘ Periclean Golden Age’ • Funeral Speech • Thucydides’ History book 2 • Athens as cultural centre • Intellectuals • Sophists/philosophers • Poets • Playwrights: • Home of Tragedy and Comedy: Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, et al. • Cultural festivals: • Panathenaia, City Dionysia, etc. Pericles rules 443-29 BC

  11. Athens: Home of Socrates • The self-professed gadfly of Athens • Denounces • Pericles • Tragedy • Rhetoric • Democracy • Championed by Plato • Views presented in Republic and elsewhere

  12. Socrates: A problem to his city Death of Socrates, Jacques-Louis David

  13. REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets • Book 2: 377c-383 • Homer and Hesiod tell salacious stories about the gods: • Castration of Ouranos by Kronos • Kronos’ cannibalism • Questionable theology • Poets wrong teachings re gods’ actions and natures • Cf. Xenophanes on Homer and Hesiod • Stories affect listeners & shape their soul • Power of poetry one of its problems for Plato • Recurs again in Republic 10 • Must be censored (even if true! Rep. 378b)

  14. Saturn (=Kronos) Devouring his Children Goya Rubens

  15. REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets • Book 3: ethical qualms raised • Achilles vs Agamemnon: insubordinate, greedy • Heroes fear death - bad example for Guardians • Possible responses: • Allegories of Homeric poetry by Theagenes, et al. • Plato/Socrates assumes depiction=endorsement • Ignores Nestor’s attempt at reconciliation • No aesthetic differentiation • Cf. Democritus and Gorgias focus on emotive pleasure of poetry: anticipate Aristotle’s Poetics

  16. REPUBLIC 2 & 3: Critiques of Archaic poets • Mimesis: 395b & ff • Poet/rhapsode’s performative art • Violates one-person/one job rule of Republic • Affects poet and listeners - emotional power again • Fall under its spell • People become assimilated to characters they see, hear • No aesthetic differentiation again • But concedes mimesis of good men acceptable: 398b • Plato contrasts with diegesis (=prose narrative) • No meter, harmonies, hyper-stylised language • implications for Rep. 10

  17. REPUBLIC 10: Critique of Mimetic Painting & Poetry • Mimesis now rejected • Psychology, epistemology, education • Theory of Forms • Outlined in books 4-9 of Rep. • Painting used as extensive analogy for mimetic poetry • Both media subject to Plato’s • Ontology • Epistemology • Psychology • Ethics & Justice

  18. REPUBLIC 10 (595-603): On Painting & Poetry • 598-599: Ontology • Painting = mimesis phantasmatos • Imitation of an appearance • Couch example and invocation of Forms • 600-601: Epistemology • Painters and poets = ignorant, so, too, their public • Operate at 3 removes from truth & deceive public: 598c • User/maker/imitator argument • 602-3: Psychology • Painting plays havoc with our senses • Seductive, erotic, magical language used • Mimetic art as courtesan (hetaira) to our senses • Epithumetikon vs Logistikon

  19. REPUBLIC 10 (603-607): On Epic Poetry & Tragedy • Psychology • Meter, harmony, music beguiles us • Seductive, erotic, magical language used (cf. painting) • Grief: tragedy, etc. panders to ‘irrational’ and emotive elements in us • Epithumetkon implied • This part is opposite to ‘what is best in us’ • Logistikon implied • But NB the ‘noble lie’ behind the poltical structure of the Republic • What makes this better than poets’ ‘lies’?

  20. REPUBLIC 10 (605c-607): ‘The Greatest Charge’ • It corrupts the best of us (cf. painting) • NB its emotive power • pleasure in sympathising with sufferings of others • People assimilate Homeric tragic characters’ behaviour to own lives • the more you indulge these emotions, the more you encourage them • no cleansing katharis here • Poets destabilise our psychological ‘order’ • Justice = Psychological order • Mimetic poets to be banned (!) • but encomia to good men allowed (607a)

  21. Specific Platonic Targets? Hector and Andromache, Cf. Iliad 6 Priam and Achilles Iliad 24

  22. Specific Platonic Targets? Sophocles’ Ajax; cf. amphora by Exekias, c. 530 BC

  23. SOME RESPONSES • Plato ignores moments in Homer of heroic restraint of emotion; Achilles and Priam again • Gorgias on cleverness of audience (B23) • recognition of artistic fiction • Cf. Dissoi Logoi on painting and tragedy • Aeschines and Isocrates (orators, active c. 410-350) provide opposite evidence to Plato • Democritus - other people’s suffering can make us count our blessings and help

  24. SOME RESPONSES • Aristotle: Plato’s greatest student and greatest critic: • Poetics defends art and poetry • Aristotle Contemplating Homer (Rembrandt, c. 1650)

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