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UPON FURTHER REVIEW: How it all began

How the Sandusky Scandal became the Penn State Scandal www.march4truth.com/events.html. UPON FURTHER REVIEW: How it all began. Eileen Morgan – ’90 Penn State. WEBSITE FOR PRESENTATIONS www.emf.intherough.net/pennstate.htm. 1998 Investigated Incident Mike McQueary Testimony Comparison

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UPON FURTHER REVIEW: How it all began

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  1. How the Sandusky Scandal became the Penn State Scandalwww.march4truth.com/events.html UPON FURTHER REVIEW:How it all began Eileen Morgan – ’90 Penn State WEBSITE FOR PRESENTATIONS www.emf.intherough.net/pennstate.htm

  2. 1998 Investigated Incident Mike McQueary Testimony Comparison Free vs. Freeh Investigation UPON FURTHER REVIEW:How it all began WEBSITE FOR PRESENTATIONS www.emf.intherough.net/pennstate.htm

  3. Timeline of Events 1998 - May 4, Victim 6 reports possible child abuse by Sandusky 1998 - June 1, District Attorney - no charges filed against Sandusky 1999 – Sandusky Retires End of ‘99 season 2001 - February 9, Mike McQueary witnesses Sandusky and a boy (Victim 2) in a shower in a football locker room 2008- Nov., Aaron Fisher (Victim 1) reports child abuse by Sandusky 2009-March 12, Attorney General launches Sandusky investigation 2009-June, AG discovers the 1998 investigation 2010-November, Investigator discovers McQueary's eye witness account online from a blog post (Corbett elected as Governor of PA) 2010-December, McQuearytestifies before GJ 2011-January 12, Paterno, Curley, Schultz testify before GJ 2011-November, GJ presentment leaked 2011, Nov. 4, JS charged with 52 counts of child sexual abuse 2011, Nov. 7, Curley, Schultz charged with perjury, failure to report 2011, Nov. 9, Board of Trustees fires Paterno 2012, June 22, Sandusky found guilty on 45 of 48 counts 2012, July 12, Freeh Report released, BoT unofficially accepts 2012, July 23, NCAA sanctions PSU, PSU President and BoTexecs accept the sanctions based on Freeh report 2012, Nov. 1,Spaniercharged with perjury, child endangerment, conspiracy, obstruction, and failure to report

  4. 1998 Investigated Incident • Victim 6 came home from working out and showering with Jerry Sandusky. • Mother of Victim 6 went to UP police to report it. • Law enforcement (local and UP police), DA, and local & state child advocate agencies (CYS & DPW) handled the 1998 investigation of Sandusky.

  5. 1998 Investigated Incident • DPW & CYS had more than enough evidence in 1998 to bring charges against Sandusky (2 boys being bear hugged in shower and psychologist’s report: Sandusky-likely pedophile.) • Mother of victim 6 knew four more (future) victims. • DPW & CYS Responsible for 2nd Mile children, & Sandusky’s foster and adoptive children. These agencies failed the children. Incompetence? • Investigation found no wrong doing. • No charges brought against Sandusky by the DA.

  6. Timeline ofMike McQueary Statements November 22, 2010 - Trooper Scott Rossman & OAG Agent Anthony Sassano interview Mike McQueary November 23, 2010 - Mike McQueary makes a written statement December 14, 2010 – Grand Jury Testimony --------------------------------------NOV 2011-------------------------------- December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial July 29,30, 2013 - Tim Curley/Gary Schultz/Graham Spanier Preliminary Hearing

  7. 2001 McQUEARYTESTIMONY COMPARISON HALLWAY

  8. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary November 22, 2010 - Trooper Scott Rossman & OAG Agent Anthony Sassano interview Mike McQueary • I told Trooper Rossman that I saw into the shower from two different locations. • On the first view, I told Sassano and Rossman -- on the way to the locker I looked into the mirror and I saw Jerry standing behind the young boy with his front side against the back side of the boy, and Jerry was moving his body towards and away from the boy. • I’m not completely sure they saw me. I thought they were having intercourse.

  9. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary November 23, 2010 - Mike McQuearywritten statement • My written statement indicates two views. • In my written statement: I did not see actual insertion but I am pretty sure, relatively sure, sex acts were occurring, that the boy was being sodomized.

  10. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 14, 2010 – Grand Jury Testimony (Mike McQueary) • I heard sounds (3 slapping sounds) when I opened the first door. There were no (slapping) sounds once I entered locker room. • I told the grand jury that I saw two views. • My first view: I walked through the second door into the locker room, I looked in the mirror as I was going to my locker. I saw Jerry up against a boy in the shower. • I looked into the shower again and on the second view, the boy had turned around and could see me. In the second view they were engaged in a very extreme sexual position. And that's when he [the boy] turned his head and he saw me over his shoulder and I saw him.

  11. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 14, 2010 – Grand Jury Testimony (cont.) • Upon seeing them in the shower, I tried to open the locker as fast as I could. I put my shoes in there and closed it up, began to walk out of the locker room. I walked out, directly out, as fast as I could, to be honest with you, when they were still in that position and he was turned (looking at me.) I was nervous and flustered, so I just didn’t do anything to stop it. • I told grand jury I wasn’t completely sure they (Sandusky and boy) saw me. • I’m pretty sure Sandusky was sodomizing the boy. • Grand Jury asked: Obviously an adult sodomizing a young boy is a crime. Did you do anything to stop it? McQueary answered: No. • I did not know if the incident was brought to the attention of law enforcement.

  12. 2001 McQUEARYTESTIMONY COMPARISON 1st VIEW 2nd VIEW HALLWAY FIRST THREE ACCOUNTS OF INCIDENT

  13. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT (From December 2010) Released November 2011 • In March, 2002(2001), Mike McQueary entered the locker room doors, and heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. • He put his sneakers in his locker, looked into the shower and saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. He was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. • He left immediately, distraught. He went to his office and called his father (John McQueary), reporting to him what he had seen. His father told Mike to leave the building and come to his home. He and his father decided that Mike had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe . • The next morning, a Saturday, Mike went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen. • Approximately one and a half weeks later, Mike was called to a meeting with Tim Curley (“Curley”) and Gary Schultz ("Schultz"). Mike reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers. • Curley and Schultz assured Mike that they would look into it and determine what further action they would take. Paterno was not present for this meeting.

  14. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Paterno) • *JonelleEshbachdid not ask JVP to be detailed. “ Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where .” • Paternotestified that Mike was very upset and told him he saw Jerry ‘fondling, or whatever you may call it. I don’t know what you call it. I’m not sure what the term would be. It was of a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was. I knew some kind of ‘inappropriate action’ was taken by Jerry with a youngster.’ • Paternocalled Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to Tim that Mike had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.* * Author’s note: Joe Paterno DID NOT testify as to exactly what he told Curley. JVP answered ‘yes’ to: ‘Was the information you passed along (to Tim) substantially the same that Mike had given you?

  15. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Paterno, cont.) • GJ: You indicated that your report was made directly to TC. Do you know of that report being made to anyone else that was a University official? JVP- No. I have tremendous amount of confidence in Mr. Curley and I thought he would look into it and handle it appropriately. • JVP doesn’t even remember Schultz being at meeting with he and Curley. He forgot another official was present. How well would his recollection of a 10 year old conversation be? He also was not aware that Spanier knew….which means JVP was not in the midst of deciding course of action. Curley and Schultz both testified that JVP talked in person to both of them at the same time.

  16. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Curley) • Curley said JVP told him McQuearysaw in a mirror that Sandusky and a boy were in a shower and that McQuearywas uncomfortable and felt he should report it to JVP. • *Eshbach ‘Now, I’m going to ask you to be as specific as you can recall, what exactly did he (Mike) tell you he had seen Sandusky doing in the shower with that young man?’ • Curley testified that Mike reported to them that "inappropriate conduct" or activity that made him "uncomfortable" occurred in the Lasch Building shower in March 2002. • Curley specifically denied that Mike reported anal sex or anything of a sexual nature whatsoever and termed the conduct as merely "horsing around".

  17. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Curley, cont.) • When asked whether Mike had reported "sexual conduct" "of any kind" by Sandusky, Curley answered, "No" twice. • When asked if Mike had reported "anal sex between Jerry Sandusky and this child," Curley testified, "Absolutely not." • Curley testified that he informed Dr. Jack Raykovitz, Executive Director of the Second Mile of the conduct reported to him and met with Sandusky to advise Sandusky that he was prohibited from bringing youth onto the Penn State campus from that point forward. • Curley testified that he also advised Penn State University President Graham Spanierof the information he had received from Mike and the steps he had taken as a result.

  18. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Schultz) • Schultz testified that Paterno reported "disturbing" and "inappropriate" conduct in the shower by Sandusky upon a young boy, as reported to him by Mike. • Schultz was later with Curley when Mike reported the incident in the shower involving Sandusky and a boy. Schultz was very unsure about what he remembered Mike telling him and Curley about the shower incident, that Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling. (fondling?) • Schultz conceded that the report Mike made was of inappropriate sexual conduct by Sandusky. Schultz testified that the allegations were "not that serious" and that he and Curley "had no indication that a crime had occurred." • Mike and Joe both described what was observed in a very general way, with no details. • Schultz denied that sodomy was reported to him either by Paterno or Mike. • Schultz confirmed that University President Graham Spanier was apprised of the incident.

  19. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT/TESTIMONY (Spanier) • Graham Spanier testified that Curley and Schultz came to him in 2002 to report an incident with Jerry Sandusky that made a member of Curley's staff "uncomfortable." • Spanierdescribed it as "Jerry Sandusky in the football building locker area in the shower with a younger child and that they were horsing around in the shower." • Spanierdenied that it was reported to him as an incident that was sexual in nature. • Spanieralso denied being aware of a 1998 University Police investigation of Sandusky for incidents with children in football building showers. • From the Freeh Report, Exhibit 2J: “The report was that Jerry Sandusky was showering with one of his Second Mile youth and they were ‘horsing around’ (or ‘engaged with horseplay’). It was reported that the staff member was not sure what he saw because it was around a corner and indirect. I asked, ‘Are you sure it was described as horsing around? They both said ‘yes.’ I asked are you sure that was all that was reported? Both said ‘yes.’

  20. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary Grand Jury Presentment KEY omission: • The OAG purposefully left out Dr. Dranov’s testimony from the grand jury presentment. • WHY? Because Dr. Dranov’s testimony supported the testimonies of Curley and Schultz (& Spanier), who said they never were told by Mike that it was anal sex or sodomy. • OAG found Curley and Schultz’s testimonies to be ‘not credible’ and charged them with perjury. • OAG found McQueary’s testimony ‘extremely credible.’ • Dr. Dranov’s testimony contradicts McQueary but supports Curley and Schultz and what Spaniersaid was reported to him (by Curley and Schultz which was reported to them by Paterno) that Mike saw Jerry in the shower with a boy and it was around a corner or indirect. Dr. Dranov was the second person Mike gave account to that very night.

  21. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary Almost a year later after GJ testimony given. A month after GJP becomes public. (Mike’s account changes) December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing

  22. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing-McQueary Testimony • I opened the first door, I heard 2-3 rhythmic slapping sounds, like skin on skin. I went in the second door and heard showers running. I turned to my locker (1st in that row) immediately to the right of the second door. Facing my locker, I looked over my right shoulder into the mirrors at a 45 degree angle and saw (for 1 to 2 seconds) into the shower where Jerry was directly behind the boy in a very, very close position with Jerry’s hands wrapped around the boy’s waist or midsection and the boy was up against the wall with his hands up against the wall. I could not see Jerry’s actual hands. • I turned back to my locker, then I stepped to the right of my locker to look directly into the shower room (for 1 to 2 seconds) and I said to myself, they are in a very sexual position. I believe Jerry was sexually molesting him and having some type of intercourse with him. I did not see insertion nor was there any verbiage or protest, screaming, or yelling. So I am not 100 percent sure there was intercourse, but that is what I believed was happening.

  23. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing (McQueary, cont.) • After the second look, the position of Jerry and the boy did not change. I would say there was slow movement, certainly not hard or fast movement but a little movement. No one said a word. • I then slammed the locker door shut and then after 4-5 seconds I took a more brisk forward movement towards the shower and looked in and saw they had separated, about 4 or 5 feet apart and facing me, looking at me. I looked at them and they looked at me. Jerry had a blank look on his face. They looked directly into my eye, both of them. No one said anything. • Mike testified that he was in there about a minute or less, maybe 45 seconds. • Total scenario based on all his testimony and time recollections takes about 15 seconds. What was happening the other 30 seconds?

  24. Mirror Mirror Sink Lockers B Lockers Vestibule Shower Room Lasch Building Staff Locker RoomMike McQueary’s Recollection of Feb. 9, 2001 Incident boy Sandusky B- glances over right shoulder to look into mirror. 1 – 2 second glance. Sees Sandusky in shower behind boy. Boy has hands against wall. http://notpsu4.blogspot.com/2012/10/smss-exclusive-scenes-of-crime-for-1st.html#more

  25. 2001 McQUEARYTESTIMONY COMPARISON Mirror Mirror Mirror Sink Lockers C Lockers Vestibule Shower Room boy Sandusky C – McQueary moves 2 – 3 paces closer. Looks directly in shower. 1 – 2 second glance. Sees Sandusky in shower behind boy. Boy has hands against wall. http://notpsu4.blogspot.com/2012/10/smss-exclusive-scenes-of-crime-for-1st.html#more

  26. 2001 McQUEARYTESTIMONY COMPARISON Mirror Mirror Sink Lockers E Lockers Vestibule Shower Room boy Sandusky McQueary moves closer, In front of sink. Looks directly into shower. Sees Sandusky and boy separated – about 3-5 feet apart. Makes eye contact with both. http://notpsu4.blogspot.com/2012/10/smss-exclusive-scenes-of-crime-for-1st.html#more

  27. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing (McQueary, cont.) • I then left the locker room and called my father and told him I just saw Coach Sandusky in the showers with a boy and it was wrong and sexual and I needed some advice. He told me to come home so I left and went to his house. I talked to my dad and Dr. Dranov. I do not think I used the word intercourse with my father, but he knew what happened. We decided I was to tell Joe Paterno what I saw. • I told Joe that I saw Sandusky with a young boy in the shower and that it was way over the lines. It was extremely sexual in nature. I described the rough positioning but not in detail. I never used the words ‘sodomy or anal intercourse’. • I did not see insertion or penetration but it looked like there was intercourse going on. But I am not 100 percent sure. • I don’t think I would have used the word intercourse with Paterno. I did not see Jerry’s genitals touching the boy. I told Paterno I heard sounds and that something extremely sexual was going on. • I am sure I used the word ‘fondling’ to describe the act to Paterno. However, I did not see fondling, I did not see Jerry’s hands on the boy’s genitals because of the body positions. Q - How would you describe fondling then? A. (Mike)-‘fondling is touching someone in a sexual way. That’s my definition. That’s what I thought I saw.

  28. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing (McQueary, cont.) • I told Curley and Schultz I saw Jerry in the showers naked with a young boy and that what I had seen was extremely sexual and over the lines and it was wrong. I told them Jerry was in very close proximity behind a young boy with his arms wrapped around him. I described that is was extremely sexual and that I thought some kind of intercourse was going on. There is no doubt I believe there was a sexual act going on between Jerry and the boy. I did not observe if Jerry had an erection or not. • When I left, the boy and Jerry were still in the shower, separated. • Did either Tim or Gary ever tell you not to talk to anybody about the shower incident? No, they never said don’t talk to anybody. Neither of them made any effort to prevent me from talking to anyone in the world. I have talked to others about this incident since talking with Paterno, Curley and Schultz. • Did you ever speak again about it to JVP after meeting with him? MM: Coach Paterno asked me a couple times after 2-3 months if I was ok, in relation to what I saw and if I was handling it ok.

  29. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing (McQueary, cont.) • After about 10 days Tim told me that he reported incident to 2nd mile and told Sandusky not to bring children on campus anymore, McQuearynever protested or said you need to do more. • For a home burglary I would have called the police but not for Jerry doing what he was doing to a boy because it was delicate in nature and I tried to use my best judgment which was leaving the boy in the shower with Jerry, in which I was sure the act was over, but I do not know for sure what happened after I left. • McQuearydoes not remember having a cell phone that night. • McQueary said he only made a fuss about Sandusky being around Lasch bldg. after the investigation started. • Commonwealth never asked Mike about that night and talking to Dr. Dranov. • Defense attorneys for Curely and Schultz were not allowed to question McQueary about what he told Dr. Dranov.

  30. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary December 16, 2011 – Tim Curley/Gary Schultz Preliminary Hearing –John McQueary • Mike told me that he saw Jerry Sandusky and a boy in the shower room and there was something at best inappropriate going on and it was sexual in nature. • I called Dr. Dranov that night before Mike got home from the Lasch Building and asked him to come over. • I told Mike he needed to report it to Joe Paterno.

  31. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial.

  32. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial (McQueary) • That night I went to the locker room and upon opening that first door, I heard showers running and skin-on-skin smacking sounds, I went into the second door, and my locker was immediately to the right and as I'm opening my locker, I glance (one to two seconds) over my right shoulder into the mirror and see a 45-degree angle into the shower room and see Coach Sandusky standing behind a boy who is propped up against the shower and [Jerry] is right up against his (boy’s) back with his front. The boy's hands are up on the wall. • I turned back to my locker, then I stepped probably two or three feet or paces to my right to get a better view with my own eyes and look directly into the shower at that angle and again saw what I explained, Coach Sandusky standing right up against the back of the young boy with the boy's hands up on the shower wall, Jerry’s arms wrapped around the boy's Midsection. • I went back to my locker, I put the shoes in the locker, slammed the locker door shut as hard as I could to make a loud sound. I made the loud noise in an attempt, I think to say, “Okay. Someone is here. Break it up please.” • I then stepped very much closer to the shower from that second position, and at that time both individuals were separated about 3-5 ft. and looking and facing directly at me. Both saw me. I saw the fronts of their bodies. I left the locker room. There was not much movement on my glances, very slow, slow, subtle movement.

  33. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial (McQueary, cont.) • I went directly upstairs called my father. He said, "Get out of the building immediately and come over to the house." I went home told my father what I had seen, did not get overly, unbelievably into detail, but made sure he knew it was extremely, extremely wrong, extremely sexual. • He called a friend, Dr. Dranov who came over. I told Dr. Dranov what I had seen, again not getting overly descript in terms of what I had seen, but making sure he knew it was sexual, it was wrong, it was perverse, everything. They said Mike, you need to tell Coach Paterno. • The next morning I went to see Paterno. I was at Paterno’s house for about 10 minutes and told Paterno what I had seen on the surface. I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy, that it was sexual and that it was wrong. I did not go into gross detail about the actual act. • Later, I met with Tim Curley and Gary Schultz and told them what I saw. • Within a week to two weeks, Curley told me they had contacted The Second Mile to inform them of the situation.

  34. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial (McQueary, cont.) • I sent out an email in Nov. 2011 that said ‘I did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room...I am getting hammered for handling this the right way, or what I thought was the right way. I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police. • On cross- Mike says Schultz was the police AND the official in charge. • I never told my father or Joe Paterno the graphic sexual nature of what I saw. That night I did not see an erection. I didn't see any insertion. I did not see an actual penis. I didn't see any genitals or anyone touching genitals. • I told the grand jury that when I discussed this with Joe Paterno I didn't leave out any details.

  35. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial (John McQueary) • Mike called me from his office and said he saw Sandusky in the shower with a young boy. • I said, where are they? He said I don't know. I said, are they still in the building? He said, I don't think so. • Every testimony Mike gives he said he left locker room and went immediately or directly to his office and called his father. Mike testified that when he left the locker room they were still in the shower. How can Mike think they are not still in the building? It’s only been a minute or two since he left them in the shower. • When Mike got home he told me he entered the locker room and went towards the noise, a rhythmic, thrusting, slapping sound. And he said: I peeked my head around the corner into a mirror saw the two in the shower. • And then further looked around the corner and saw them kind of eye to eye. He said that [Jerry] was positioned behind the young man, up against the shower wall. • I asked him if he seen anal sex or if he could verify, penetration, or I might have used the word sodomy. He said, no. I told him he needed to tell Joe Paterno. • Romingershowed a transcript from The Curley/Schultz hearing from Friday, December 16, 2011, in Dauphin County Courthouse with John McQueary listed as a witness, but John McQueary denied being there or testifying.

  36. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary June 11-22, 2012 – Jerry Sandusky Trial (Dr. Dranov) • Mike said he entered a locker room and heard what he described as sexual sounds. I asked him what he meant and he said, well, sexual sounds, you know what they are. I said, no, Mike, you know, what do you mean? And he couldn't go on. • And then he said he looked toward the shower and a young boy looked around. He made eye contact with aboy who did not look upset or frightened. Then, an arm reached out and pulled the boy back. • After that, it was something about going back to his locker and then he turned around and faced the shower room and a man came out and it was Jerry Sandusky. • I told him to report it to Joe Paterno. He did not describe seeing any particular sex act. He implied [something sexual] had gone on with what he talked about with sexual sounds. But he did not give me any kind of graphic description. I asked him three times what did you see and each time he would come back to the sounds.

  37. 2001 McQUEARYTESTIMONY COMPARISON Dr. Dranov’s and Spanier’s (From Curley and Schultz report) Account

  38. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary July 29,30, 2013 - Tim Curley/Gary Schultz/Graham Spanier Preliminary Hearing

  39. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary July 29,30, 2013 - Tim Curley/Gary Schultz/Graham Spanier Preliminary Hearing – McQueary • I told Coach Paterno that I had seen Coach Sanduksy engaged in a very bad sexual act, molestation actwith a minor….a boy roughly 10-12 years old. • I told Mr. Curley and Mr. Schultz I had seen Jerry Sandusky involved in a sexual situation, molestation incident in the Penn State football locker room. • Tim & Gary definitely knew that it was a sexual act, a molestation act between Jerry and a young boy in the shower. • When I left the shower in 2001, the boy was still in the shower with Mr. Sandusky. • When I was crying in my father’s bedroom that night, I said you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on. • We discussed calling the police but we did not. • On his way from Laschbuilding to his father’s home, Mike says I think I may have called my girlfriend, but I can’t quite remember. (No cell at 12-16-2011 hearing)

  40. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary July 29,30, 2013 - Tim Curley/Gary Schultz/Graham Spanier Preliminary Hearing – McQueary (cont.) • The only thing I objected to over the years infrequently and unofficially to people, coworkers is I would say ‘why the heck is he allowed in here, why do we let him in this facility.’ • I expressed it in 2009 and definitely before then. People saw very severe reactions with me before then and, frankly, expressions spoken that I had objections. People definitely knew that I had seen something that was bad. But I did not tell people I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy.(First hearing he only said he objected to JS after investigation began in Nov 2010) • Coach Paterno spoke to me a couple times in the next couple weeks after the Saturday morning meeting about Jerry. He didn’t ask ‘are you ok how this was handled.’ He said hey, do you need to talk to anyone, are you okay, is there anything I can do for you?’ It was emotionally and psychologically personal for me.

  41. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary July 29,30, 2013 - Tim Curley/Gary Schultz/Graham Spanier Preliminary Hearing – McQueary (cont.) • The Sandusky incident came up several times after 2001 with JVP. • After the investigation started, JVP said something like ‘God he was a sick guy.’ • Wednesday, Nov 9 at practice Joe said to me-The university is going to come down hard on you. Don’t worry about me. They’re going to try and scapegoat you. You need to make sure you have lawyers. Don’t trust Cynthia Baldwin and don’t trust Old main. • Mike said JVP would talk about it a little over the years. There were not long conversations about the incident but there were remarks and little comments here and there throughout the years. Maybe once or twice a year. • JVP said Old Main screwed up over the years, once or twice, (after the 2001 incident) before testifying in Dec 2010. I think I told investigators he said that. • JVP would talk to me about Jerry and what I had seen in front of others in the office on a very shallow basis.

  42. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary Taking all of Mike’s accounts there is only one view he had. • 1stlook had to be backside of Jerry (plus he testifies on cross at TC/GS hearing he saw JS entire backside, quartering angle, obstructing a lot of the boy). • He said he never saw genitalia or Sandusky’s hands. • Not a side view or a frontal view. • Boy was in front, only came up to Sandusky’s chest, JS would have blocked the boy. • If view was back of JS, how could he tell how close he was to boy? Depth perception? Mike said Sandusky was ‘directly behind’ against the boy. • Mike says JS hands around waist, that it was a sexual assault. • Boy’s hips had to be even with JS hips, but if both are standing on the ground, the boys hips would have been too low for sexual assault. • For Mike to see that it was a boy (not blocked) with hands on wall, my theory is that JS had lifted the boy up (like with vic 6) to rinse shampoo from head, that is why JS hands were around his waist, and their hips were aligned, Mike could see boy, not totally blocked by JS and his hands were against wall to brace himself from falling forward as JS lifted him up. A few moments later, Mike looks again, and they are separate because JS put the boy down.

  43. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary DISCREPANCIES: • The GJ Presentment states/lies that Mike McQueary saw a young boy ‘being subjected to anal rape’ by Jerry Sandusky and that Mike reported what he had seen to his father, John, and to Joe Paterno, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. • Mike’s written statement (before GJ) says he did not see insertion and testifies at hearing and trial under oath that he never saw anal rape, genitalia, or penetration. • GJP lied about what McQueary saw and that he told his father, JVP, Curley and Schultz he saw that.

  44. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary DISCREPANCIES: First 3 accounts in 2010: • Mike only looked twice (the first going in and toward locker through mirror, the second looking directly in before going to locker). • The boy saw Mike during the second look while still against the wall in the ’sexual’ position. • Mike put shoes in locker and left immediately and did nothing to stop it. • No slamming locker. • The two are ‘engaged’, not separated. • Did not mention of talking to law enforcement.

  45. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary DISCREPANCIES: Last 3 accounts after Nov 2011 (He got ‘hammered’) • Mike looked 3 times (first was while at the locker over his shoulder into mirror, the second was directly in, and the third was directly in after slamming locker door). • Slamming locker door to ‘stop it.’(was added after Nov. 2011 because he says he ‘was getting hammered for the way handled it’ in an email.) • The boy andJerry saw him on the third look after locker slam. • They were separated looking at himbecause he ‘stopped it.’ • Said he spoke to police (Schultz.) • When he left the shower, he says the boy was still in the shower with Mr. Sandusky. (contrary to Dr. Dranov’s testimony that JS walked out and telling his father he doesn’t think they were still in the building just a few minutes later.)

  46. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary DISCREPANCIES: • Mike says there was slow, slow, subtle movement. Glance was only 1-2 secs. How can you see slow movement? • If there was anal rape of a young boy by Sandusky there would have been sounds or verbiage from at least the boy. Mike said there was absolutely NO verbal communication from any of them. • If Sandusky saw McQuearythere would seem to have been some communication, if not from Mike ‘Hey, what is going on?’ as least from Sandusky acknowledging Mike, especially if he was just caught raping the boy. • It would have been similar to Aaron Fisher’s case when JS and he were wrestling around and a coach walked in and JS popped up real quickly and said ‘Hey I was just showing him some wrestling moves.’ Wouldn’t JS being caught in the act in the shower have even more reason to talk to MM to quash any suspicion? Sandusky told Ziegler that he did not see anyone which is more in line with there being no communication. Mike also testified that he never saw anal rape, or penetration or even any genitalia, & in conjunction with no sounds/verbiage is more in line with no assault going on.

  47. 2001 Shower Incident witnessed by Mike McQueary Buzz Words used in testimony by: John McQueary Joe PaternoTim Curley Gary Schultz Graham Spanier Terms: “inappropriate behavior”, “that made him uncomfortable”, “horsing around.” Those are not words to describe someone who witnessed child molestation

  48. 2001 McQueary Account Mike McQueary- Eyewitness 2001 incident John McQueary Dr. Dranov (Commonwealth did not allow GJP/Hearing) Joe Paterno Gary Schultz Tim Curley Graham Spanier Jack Raykovitz-2nd Mile Chair 2nd Mile Board Member #1 2nd Mile Board Member #2 In all, 10 men were aware of incident.

  49. 2001 Lasch Shower Incident Was there a crime? BEHAVIOR OF ALL 10 MEN-the same • Did not call police • Were concerned with Sandusky’s behavior • Each passed it along to whom they thought would best handle it, based on what was told to them. • Curley & Raykovitz told Sandusky it was inappropriate and not to shower with boys anymore.

  50. 2001 Lasch Shower Incident Was there a crime? BEHAVIOR OF MEN • Dr. Dranov was a mandatory reporter. Dr. Dranov asked 3 times, ‘What did you see?’ He was clarifying whether a crime was committed or not so that he would know whether to report or not as mandated by law. • He did not report, so he believed there was no crime committed.

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